Scarcity Mentality

𝐒𝐜𝐚𝐫𝐜𝐢𝐭𝐲 𝐌𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐚𝐥𝐢𝐭𝐲

Jason and Connor discuss the context surrounding the woman anointing Jesus with oil. Why are the Pharisees afraid of arresting Jesus at a particular time? Why does Judas ultimately decide to betray Jesus? Come be amazed and perplexed with us.


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Music by: Heavensense
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Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi, my name is Connor, and I'm Jason, and you're listening to the Amazed and Perplexed podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

So two episodes ago, we talked about the scenario that plays out in Mark chapter 14, where there is this woman, and we know from other contexts she's Mary, that comes in and puts perfume on Jesus, and there's some pushback specifically, and again from other contexts, I believe, Judas is the one that says, hey, this could have been sold and paid for the poor, and Jesus responds, and we've we talked through that. I thought it would be interesting for us to cover the context after the fact, after the after talking about the conversation. So today we're gonna be just looking at four verses, and it's Mark chapter 14, 1 and 2, and then we're gonna jump down to verse 10 uh and 11.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

So yeah, excited for that. I've always wondered, I don't know if you've ever done this, like, did you have you ever said something? You're like, I wonder if that's the first time any anybody's ever said that. I've also I've always wondered that with the Bible. It's like, is this the first time? Like, how many people have ever been like, okay, you know, we talk through verses uh three through nine. Now we're gonna do like is it how many, like you gotta imagine the numbers are pretty low through the course of Christianity of 2,000 years, like under 100, you know, I would say, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Hmm, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

I don't know. I'm always fascinated by that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yeah, I I do think there there is that dynamic where I I'm always uh disappointed it's probably too strong, but I have taught lessons or even series of lessons, and somebody will come to me and say, Oh, you must be reading such and such, and I'm like I'm like, No, what who who's this? And they'll tell me, and they can't believe I'm not reading it because it's so in line with what they're thinking, and so that's why I'm like, is there any new thought?

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Yes, it's the it's the great, it's it's the great sadness and the great comforter that we are not gonna be able to say anything new here. Um, and that's sad because I I mean I like I like saying new things, I like hearing new things, but it's also comforting to know that like we have 2,000 years of history backing us up, and you know, I I doubt God's gonna be like, yeah, that that went that uh we recorded on Wednesday, it's that Wednesday when you said that, Connor. Whew, man, nobody'd ever knew it. First time, first time. I knew you were gonna say before time began, but man, first so, anyways, so the verses. So the verses, uh starting in verse one, now the Passover and the festival of unleavened bread were only two days away, and the chief priests and the teachers of the law were scheming to arrest Jesus secretly and kill him, but not during the festival, they said, or the people may riot. Jumping down to verse 10. Then Judas then Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went to the chief priests to betray Jesus to them. They were delighted to hear this and promised to give him money. So he watched for an opportunity to hand him over. Jason, what amazes you?

SPEAKER_01 3:04

As with every time we do this, I'm always trying to ask myself, uh, in real time, what amazes me. And that may be what amazed me a week ago or ten years ago. Uh, but just to be fresh and allow God to teach me, allow his spirit to teach me while we're going. And these verses on their own, they don't seem that amazing. Like any anytime you have a short passage, you're like, what is this? But that's why it intrigues me to even study it. I think what's jumping out uh to me right now uh is this dynamic of uh of the plot that's going around going going on around this situation of such beauty. You have Jesus doing these beautiful things, and it amazes me, and and and it's the kind of amazing that it's like it's shockingly sad, you know, that the Pharisees are so blind um to this, and and this is part now their motivation starts before this, and just keep in mind, this is this happens later. You know, of course, Jesus says in in the story, he says, Look, she's preparing me for my burial. That didn't happen right then, like the next day, but this is deep into Jesus' ministry. So the Pharisees have been thinking about this. This is one of those times, though it's so clearly articulated they're gonna kill him. And it's like, yes, it's because they fear their power, and I know they're focusing on um these points of interaction where he you know rebuts their efforts or or pushes back or makes them look foolish, and there's a lot of fear tied up in there, but how how much it just mars their perspective on the beauty of what he's of what he's doing, not not just here, um, but how they just can't see. I mean, and that that's the thing. It's again, it's it's usually I'm amazed and it's like happy amazement. I'm like, wow, that's so cool. But this is that kind of amazement that it's just like, man, these men are not evil men, but they are so blinded. Uh and of course, then that that makes me immediately reflect, how am I blinded? That's good. You know, what is it I'm so sure of?

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Yeah, I think I think that's something we always have to keep in front of us. Uh it it is like as Christians, it is we like we we are called and I think we are compelled by the Holy Spirit um to call out injustice, to speak against wicked acts, and to try to remedy and try to rescue people, try to help them out of oppression, and to to love them through that. And as people who want to love well and who wanna who want to you know help people out of hard times and help people um experience the goodness of life and and what God has for them, I think it's really easy to to begin to be like, well, those are other than the Pharisees are other than, right? That they must they have like it's it that it's almost like they become a separate species, right? It's almost like they become this this separate entity from from who we are. And and the reality is I I think um I I think for me they there's a very real possibility that if I, you know, my my brain as a baby had been transported and put into uh you know the Pharisees' brain when they were a baby and I grew up and experienced the things they grew up, there's a very real chance I would have had the same sort of reaction and the same sort of feelings and done the same sort of things that the Pharisees did. Uh that this is always one of those things just keeping us in front of us. The thing that separates me from being um there's no biology, right, that separates me from being the the guard in a Nazi concentration camp. There's no magical switch that goes, oh, this is the evil switch that flips, or oh, this is the homicidal switch that flips. We can try to, you know, this is one of those things we always try to think with um, you know, with like specifically Nazi Germany, well, you know, there's just this other kind of evil, and it was horrific and evil, but all those German soldiers weren't psychopaths, they all weren't sociopaths, right? They all like didn't have these specific conditions, and how so how did all these people commit these atrocities? Well, one, it's just well, we're not gonna get into into how, but the reality is that they all could and all did participate, which means that we all have the possibility of committing evil acts and being a part of evil um enterprises. And so I think this is just one of those things to keep in front of us, always keep in front of us, especially when we talk about scripture. Um, because like I know we make fun of Peter a lot, but like there's a very real possibility we put into Peter's shoes, we would have some of the same sort of reactions that Peter had, we'd have the some of the same sort of thoughts that Peter had. And I know that's I know that's the case with the Pharisees for me.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

I I think that is such a tremendous point, and I think of it from you know, man, uh how could you be a Christian during slavery and justify that? How could you be a Christian during um any any period in our in our life, you know, even Jim Crow laws and things like this, and say, that's fine, you know, that's fine that we that we're not, you know, how does your love not overcome, you know, and say, Man, I know culture is saying this, but man, I've got and certainly there were Christians that were like love dominated them and they pushed back. Yeah, and and they were right in that and almost certainly wrong in another area. Yeah, absolutely true. And then when I apply it to me though, and this I remember thinking this a while ago and thinking, what am I on the wrong side of that I'm so convinced I'm on the right side? And here's the thing it's not to make us paranoid, it it's it's really to keep us teachable. At the root of the Pharisees' problem, they have the same problem that I've had most of my life that says, I know, oh I know. You know, so if you come along and say almost almost anything to me, especially about how to do church, you know, you know we should really be doing this. Oh, yeah, I know, or you're wrong. I mean, there's only two right answers there. Either I already know you can't tell me anything, or you're wrong. And that's that's pharisaical. I mean, that is the heart of the pharisaical problem. And the thing is, these people have earned the right to say they've studied a lot. What they didn't earn was the right to say they were done learning from God. Now, again, they didn't see it that way. They thought, well, God has already taught me. God has already taught me what a f what a Messiah would look like. God has already taught me how to work with Roman government and how to how to run things, you know, and I do this same thing. And man, having kids as they grow up, one of the things that's been so good for me is realizing, man, I'm teaching my kids, but my kids are teaching me. Yeah, you know, and God works with my kids differently than he works with me, and just like he works differently with every human being. And for me to assume that it's gonna be the same, I am actually working against the very way that he designed them and me. But if I can keep a teachable spirit, the teaching that God is giving them that is unique for them, I can learn from.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

Yeah. And I think it comes from the posture of the Pharisees here. Why why does it say like they're like they're not gonna confront Jesus here is because they're afraid of the people. They're afraid of what could happen. Why why do they want to confront Jesus? It's because they're afraid of what will happen if Jesus starts a revolution, they will lose power because Rome will crack down and they're afraid, they're afraid, they're afraid. They're operating out of fear, right? They're they're not looking for the love, they're not looking for the good, they're not looking for pot, they don't have a posture of learning. Their posture is we have to protect what we have right now, and that's not a posture of God. Like the posture of a disciple, of somebody who wants to follow God is God, this is all yours. Use it how you will, use it, use me, use what I have to grow, to learn, to become whatever it is. And we all we all have the situation where like somebody comes to us who like like you said, it's so easy to to have that reaction of I know or you're completely wrong. And the like the reason that comes up so often is because I think so much of us, so much of the time, we all operate with a scarcity mentality, right? That, you know, when it's in when it's the realm of the church of like, well, I've got to protect the members that we have, well, I've got to protect, you know, the donations, you know, the tithing that we're getting, I've got to protect the way we do things, I've got to protect my image, my family's mentality, I've got to protect my job, I've got whatever the thing is. And the thing that I think that is so important that we keep in front of us is that God does not act God does not exist on a scarcity model, right? Like if we believe that our God is miraculous and that the Holy Spirit is somebody that can, you know, can conjure not uh conjure up something out of nothing, then scarcity scarcity does I mean, I don't want to seem like, well, we don't ever have to worry about anything or don't have to ever save money or anything like that. But if our mindset is God is going to provide, our mindset is that our mindset is that God is going to provide, and that God is operating not out of fear, not out of fear that we're gonna get things wrong, not out of fear that we're gonna mess them up, but out of um a forward momentum and not uh what it basically it boils down to so much of the time we we we operate on a backwards fo focus, on a um how to protect, how to um how to keep what we have here and now, and God is so much more forward in pushing forward, God is so much more interested in pushing you into into greater and greater dependence on him.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

I I think that's 100%, and I think the one of the dynamics I keep thinking about is when I get afraid of the future, I'm trying to figure it out. And it's not bad, it's not evil to figure, but but that idea of I need to choose to trust him with this, with that figuring. And that's that's the rough. So what about you? What amazes you?

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Yeah, I I it had an amazing it was it was the initial amazement that you had about the um this is not what I had originally, but after you said this, the the fact that the fact that God can weave beauty in the midst of disaster, in the midst of evil intentions, um is just never gonna stop amazing me. Um I know like we've talked about it, I think a lot recently, maybe, maybe in the podcast, maybe in just conversations Jason and I have had, but I don't know how Jesus gets anything accomplished uh in the last week of his life. I mean, to know, to know what's coming, to know the pain and and the feet and to have the the fear, um to have the anxiety, to to to not want it, um, to for him to not be paralyzed is is absolutely incredible to me. And it just reinforced you, you you bring that up, reinforces me, uh, reinforces for me how amazing um what this woman did for Jesus. Uh I like I think about it and I just think of of of what it is, you know, there's so many times I I've had the experience where somebody will do something for me. Um, somebody will bring me a cup of coffee, or they'll bring me a you know a candy bar or whatever, uh to, you know, at work or whatever, or a friend does it, or a friend invites me over. And most of the time it's like, well, that that was nice of that person. I appreciate the cup of coffee, I appreciate the food, or whatever. Um, but if somebody does that like and I'm really going through something, like I feel isolated, I feel lone, um, you know, I had a big fight, or I lost somebody, or I'm or there's I'm waiting back to hear uh from a love a fa loved family member is possibly dying, and somebody just reaches out with a cup of coffee, or somebody reaches out and just with some nice some something that honors me as a human being and sees me for who I am. That thing that before was like, oh, that's pretty cool, becomes this momentous thing for me. Um and and seeing that now in this in this new light for Jesus is just is just absolutely incredible. And it and it just reinforces how how big um we can be if we're really picking up on on what the Holy Spirit is trying to do. Um and like we have this sense of well, if the Holy Spirit is moving, then there's not gonna be any bad things, right? The Holy Spirit's moving, then there's gonna be an avoidance of negativity, and there's gonna be an avoidance of all that is evil. And I think the thing we keep seeing through scripture is not that not the Holy Spirit is is is causing the evil, but the Holy Spirit is is weaving into all of creation. Um God God is weaving in the goodness, God is weaving in um the hopefulness, the the the ultimate um I I can't even put into words, but like I just think that there's so much beauty in that um in that reality that you kind of helped paint for me. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Oh no, that's that's interesting, and and I think I I like that, and it leads into what perplexes me uh because with that, what perplexes me is Judas is right there. We know later that with the tomorrow in their timeline or the next day, um that Jesus is gonna be at a table with Judas, and he's like, one of you will betray me. And I'm like, all he's gotta do is say, Hey, Judas, before you go, can we talk for a minute? This is this is perpetually, I was gonna say eternally, but eventually, if I care, and when I'm in the presence of God, if I care, I'm gonna ask this. This is gonna be one of my first questions, you know. More than human suffering, more than that, it's like, why did you not say to Judas, hey, this is not gonna go well for you? And and maybe he did. I I can't say, but it's not recorded that Jesus has knowledge, this is happening at some point at least. Um, and I would just think I would like there to be a section where Jesus pulls Judas aside and he says, You really got to think this through, and Judas explains himself. And and I I can ascribe rationale and try to give Judas the benefit of the doubt, but it's more Jesus' behavior that perplexes me. Is this idea, and then it makes me wonder I carry guilt over, oh, you know, I'm doing premarital counseling for a couple, and some there's a glitch, there's a little bit of something that's off, and I ask a question about it, and they say yes or no, or whatever that that would satisfy the question, but in my spirit, I'm like, man, is this, you know, should I should I say more and I'll I'll double down, but now I feel like I'm intrusive, and I'm like, well, you know, all I can do is ask them. You know, they can lie to me if they want, and then three years later they get a divorce, or a month later, you know. I mean, I I don't know, I don't track every person for worse pre-medical counseling.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

And then I'm like, am I doing my job at all? And you know what I mean, this kind of thing. And and for Jesus to know that imminent disaster, Jesus loves Judas, and Jesus is love, you know, in the same way that God is. So I know it's not unloving, and it's honoring, and part of loving is giving people a choice. So I just wonder to you, Connor, and to the our listeners, who is it in your world that you feel guilty about that, well, if I could have done this or should have done that, and here you have Jesus, that I just think, man, you could have made things so much better for Judas. And and that's an assumption, you know, I don't know. But but it is, it's perplexing that we don't have some record of him saying anything juice about it except go and do what you need to do.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Yeah, no, that and that that is that is very difficult. Yeah, I think about so if you uh so you're a minister of a church, and let's just say like a some a prominent member of your a prominent member of people that you're discipling, um you find out that almost certainly for sure they're planning to have an affair. Like they're you know, they'd like developed closeness with somebody that is not their their spouse, and you know for a fact that like they're they're probably gonna want they're gonna act out on it, given the chance they're going to act out on it. As somebody that's discipling them, um, I I think, and I don't rightly or wrongly, I I would I would I don't I would assume rightly you'd almost be guilty of negligence and duty for not for not saying for for not stopping it or or at the very least having that confrontation. Um and maybe the confrontation for Jesus and we we'll talk about something maybe the confrontation for Jesus is is that opportunity he gives and says, Hey, one of you will betray me. Um maybe that's the confrontation, maybe that's the allowing for a chance of like good point. I it it it could be, but I I definitely think there's some interesting um there's just an interesting as uh aside here for the fact that Jesus is just so um it's so funny when it comes to other people's situation, other people's life, I want Jesus to be so much more controlling, and when it comes to my life, I just I don't I want it to be less controlling 100%. That is so true. But even for even for Judas, and Judas has an absolutely tragic story. Um and I mean it's it makes me sad how how Judas has become this, you know, um the how Judas be is become synonymous with with what it's become synonymous with. It makes me it it breaks my heart. Um it breaks my heart for him, but I I really there is there is a fascinating thing here of like of Jesus knowing um Yeah, yeah, I mean it there's a thousand places to go. There's a thousand places to go with that.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Absolutely, yeah. And and I think that this this dynamic, it just raises the question for me why this even causes me angst is that I'm asking myself, how responsible am I for the people I'm discipling to protect them from their own sin, to warn them, to what is overreaching and what is you know, because I come from a culture of micromanaging. Uh, you know, oh, you want to be you want to be a member here, we're gonna tell you all to do, and don't let us catch you doing sin, or we will ostracize you, or you know, and uh so uh you know the tendency of course is go to the other side of the pendulum and saying, hey, hands off, you do what you want. And Jesus is not doing that, and you you made a good point, you know, him to even call it out in front of everybody at this very pivotal supper. I mean, you're doing the the Passover is is a time where you, and we're not getting into that right now, but it's a time where you reflect on how good God is to you and and how much God has done, and it's a time of of you know repentance and probably the second most important day on the Jewish calendar. Yeah, exactly. It's a recent time. So Judas is betraying Jesus in the middle of that reflection, and in that Jesus saying, Hey, I want to call this what it is. You were a traitor, so that's really helpful to me, even just what you said. I'm like, oh yeah, that it that is true. So so with that in mind, what perplexes you?

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Yeah. Um, so this perplexes me, and it also might confirm something that I've I've long suspected. So uh the the dynamic at play in the last week of Jesus' life of him walking of him riding in triumphantly, of having these throngs of people be there for him. Um and for the Pharisees who would have had a pulse in the city, who would have known what was going on, that they're afraid that if they openly arrest Jesus, if they don't have a good reason, if they don't come at a good time, that there will there will be a riot that happens. Um it is so fascinating that Jesus and perplexing that Jesus that okay, if the Pharisees had been stupider and arrested Jesus at the wrong time, that in the name of Jesus, not like a thousand years later in a crusade, but in the name of Jesus, when he's alive, there would have been a riot, which would have inevitably led to people dying and being maimed and hurt. Um that that is utterly fascinating. Wow. Because I I I you know it we I look back and I there's very real um griefs and and problems with church history of people committing violence in the name of Jesus. And there's this sense, if I go back to the first century, the second century, when there, you know, when it was only people who were pressed and all this other stuff, and I'm not saying all those people in Jerusalem were Christians. Are saved, or whatever you want it wanna say. But I think you could also say the same thing about um people today in churches who abuse people or people in churches who are so entrenched in nationalism or so entrenched in whatever, whatever you want to say. Um or the same thing with the crusades of were those people were those people actually following Jesus. Um but these things are still done in Jesus' name. These things are still done um under that umbrella, not not that Jesus endorses it. And so that's just really perplexing to me. Um that if the Pharisees had made a wrong turn, the first example of of that sort of we do see the first example of like Christian violence, I guess, when Peter cuts off the guard's ear, but the the first like that could have been something that happened in Jesus' lifetime. Um it it it's perplexing, but it also helps confirm to me that what we experience is not new, right? When we look around to the world and we see problems with that church or or the that movement or that group of people that we just go, man, they're not seeing it, they're not getting the picture, or we even look at our own group, man, we're not seeing this, we're not seeing that, we're not getting the picture. There's something that's that's really helpful to know that there are people who were seeing the physical Jesus, who were hearing him preach, who were seeing him uh, you know, turn turn turn over tables, who were seeing him um be this radical figure, and they were st there there were people, there were very real concerns that these people who saw Jesus um would then turn around and start rioting. Um that that's perplexing.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Man, that is just something I have never ever thought of, never heard. Uh is how, you know, and I'm applying it broader now, even how delicate the balance is that God is is working on here, that this could have erupted in violence. If Jesus hadn't immediately corrected Peter, would one of the apostles have been killed, and then an apostle kills a soldier, and then all of a sudden that spills over to the city, or in this particular case, the scenario you're imagining where you know the the you know, this is an ironic way to say it where the Pharisees weren't smart you know, about their their scheming and also about their killing of God. Yeah, that that is that is really fascinating. You know, here in Tulsa, we've had several things happen over the years where I just felt like, and the last of which was of course the the centennial of the race massacre. Um, you know, I I read multiple news outlets that were like, yeah, Tulsa's gonna be a tinderbox this weekend. So this was just last last weekend or two weekends ago, and it's just I mean, the expectation there were people carrying assault rifles all through the streets of Tulsa, you know, down near the Greenwood area, and nothing happened. You know, it's amazing. I know police officers.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

That was what happened before with um what was the the woman police officer? What was her name?

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Oh, I can't remember Terrence Crutcher, the man that was that was killing. People were expecting Tulsa to erupt, or when Trump came to town, you know, they were expecting Tulsa. I mean, all the predictions were it's gonna blow up, and it didn't. And a lot of times we just gloss right over it. Like we could be saying, man, they're just now getting our city back under control because different factions who were carrying assault rifles got in a fight in the streets and that spilled over, and then they killed the wrong, not that you ever kill the right person, but you kill this significant person. Well, then these other people come to town, and all of a sudden, you know, we're under National Guard. It's so easy.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Rome comes down.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Yeah, exactly, and the National Guard is covering the streets, and we can't go out. I mean, we could be telling such a different story. Um, and one of the things that I know is that, man, people have been praying about Tulsa. There's a contingent of people that are constantly praying about these very dynamics in Tulsa, and but at the end of the day, we were really rescued from such horrific things. And so it's funny because the implication then is who gave, well, we know this, who gave the Pharisees the intelligence they had? Yes, they were misusing that intelligence, but the very strategy that allowed there not to be this riot that came from intelligence God provided. Now that same intelligence was misused, and then you lead it leads to the death of Jesus. So man, that is mind-blowing to me. This whole line of thinking, I could go another 30 minutes just what about this and what about that? But yeah, that that is a fascinating perplexion.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Yeah, no, it really is. And and I think this is one of those things that like that we like we we can realize so much time we just kind of go through our life, right? Because because something happened last weekend, like I, you know, I it doesn't even think like I think I thought about before of like I wonder if something's gonna happen, but because something didn't happen in our city, it like I'm just like, well, it didn't happen, so it was it was never going to happen. Right. Um, but the reality is man, we are always living on a knife's edge, and like we know, you know, we know when something happens when somebody gets on car wreck, how fragile the human body is, and how fragile like it's so funny because like we have this sense that our lives are so set, but when something blows it up, we begin to realize, man, how fragile life is and how fragile um how fragile our our our existence is, and when things like the coronavirus happen, or when man there are riots that happen because of police brutality and and and all this stuff, we begin to realize, man, our society is not as structured as we thought. Our society isn't as um isn't as on firm foundation as we previously believed. And I think this is one of those things um that we could choose to live out of fear for, or we can go, man, do we have a God that's magnificent enough to begin to weave and to begin to, if we trust in him and if we believe in him, we have a God that's that can weave these things in and out together. Um, and that how he does it is a perplexing nature and how it actually plays out. Um that that's gonna take somebody with uh a lot more IQ points than I have to to begin to to think through. But I think that there is there is some comfort there, right? Of like the Fair this is so funny. The Pharisees, like you said, are being they're being smart, right? They're figuring out when is the best time to kill God, and they avoid a riot, but they still kill the Son of God. Like that, like that, that is such a that is such a great um picture of what human planning can get you, right? We avoid the riot, but we kill God. Um I I wonder if that's gonna be the name of the episode.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

I like it, I like it. Yeah, and my takeaway today is, and it's just this constant dynamic, but it's it's always true and always needed. If God could work through that mess, why am I scared he won't work through the mess I'm in now?

SPEAKER_00 28:18

No, yeah, it's very compelling. And I think about the nature of where we find ourselves, there's a lot of um, I think, angst over where Christianity is in America in 2021. And I think for some reason for some places I think that's warranted and good and right to be, to have some angst over it. But I also think there's a lot we can find some peace and some comfort in this, that this is nothing new, right? This is something that Christianity, like we said, like we kind of maybe started off the beginning of the episode. This is something that Christianity has been dealing with since the very beginning. Not like like even before the beginning of our of our religion, if you will. And that's both I it's it's hard, right? Because it's these are hard things, but it's also beautiful to know that through that God is still working and weaving and willing. Um, and the fact that God doesn't do away with us, God doesn't do away with the um with the church as a whole is just is just miraculous. So thank you for listening. Grace, peace, and love, and then you can't do it.